There’s got to be a soundtrack

WHAT IS BBU?

Epic: BBU is an acronym for "Bin Laden Blowin' Up." The safe name is also "Black, Brown and Ugly."

BIN LADEN Blowin' Up...pretty provocative name with the "war on terror" still going on. Why did you pick that name?

Epic: We went through a bunch of different names like "Reagan Babies" or "Reaganomics." And then we were at a club, and we heard that Three 6 Mafia song "Bin Laden," and we thought, "Damn, we should call our group Bin Laden Blowin' Up."

Afterward, we formulated the reasoning for it, the logic behind it. Osama Bin Laden was basically a product of the Reagan years; he was trained by the U.S. He's a product of the '80s, just like we're a product of the '80s. On that note, we have a lot in common. We've also said in a few other interviews that we don't abide by what this dude did, but we understand the mentality behind lashing out against the American government.

Jasson: That was the thing--the lashing out. Even if you did pure numbers, for them, it was 2,000, unfortunately, who died. But when America lashes out, millions die. And afterward, people would ask, "How could this happen to us?" For one thing, that indicates that we automatically think we're innocent, and then for another, that it shouldn't happen to us.

So it's okay to bomb people all over the world and deny them basic needs--whether it's the embargo of Cuba, whether it's the sanctions on Iraq or what's going on in Afghanistan right now--and not expect it to come back. So I think the idea of Bin Laden Blowin' Up was that--just like policies in the inner cities--his foreign policy was directly responsible for this stuff.

This isn't some conspiratorial, far-off notion. This is real. This is Ronald Reagan dedicating the flight of the Challenger space shuttle to the people of Afghanistan, and saying that we're arming and training these people to attack the Russians. And then this person comes back with that training and uses it against the people of the United States.

Illekt: Which is also about blowback, which goes back into the name...

Jasson: Right, and that's our attitude for shit that happens over here, too. So many times when something like the murder of Derrion Albert happens, people ask, "Oh, why did this happen?" Or when the LA riots happened. So that's what Bin Laden Blowin' Up represented to us.

Also, we wanted to be a dope rap group, but lately, it seemed like a lot of so-called "conscious" rap groups didn't have names that challenged the status quo. And we just wanted to have that name that was...

Illekt: In your face!

Epic: Yeah, like back in the day with Public Enemy...

Illekt: Or even in terms of a lot of punk rock bands.

LIKE THE Dead Kennedys or Reagan Youth?

Illekt: Yeah! If you see Bin Laden Blowin' Up on a flier, you would think of a punk rock band before you thought of a hip-hop group! And that's something we try to bring to our shows.

Epic: But that is hip-hop! You know, hip-hop has gotten sidetracked a lot lately, and it's not so much about live performance anymore. But our live performance is just that: it's energy, like back in the day, it's in your face!

SO THAT idea of blowback, of America reaping what it sows, informs the music as well as the name too?

Illekt: Yeah, we're trying to push politics and keep people educated, but we're also trying to have fun with it. We don't want to make something that's boring and can just be tossed to the side. We want to make something that is relevant and new and that talks about something.

Epic: Me and J got together and were organizing a Black collective--it was like a Black empowerment space. And we would go to these spots and do the open mic, and then as soon as we were done with the open mic, we would go see, like, Flosstradamus.

Jasson: I think that one of the biggest things for us was pushing the idea that we have to bring those worlds together--the conscious and the club--because they've been so separated. I feel like activists and organizers get a rap of generally being very boring.

THERE'S A stereotype out there: that political hip-hop has got to be po-faced and serious; it can't be fun, and it can't make you dance.

Jasson: The main thing for us is that doing what we're doing is natural to us because we just wanted to do music from where we came from. You know what I mean? Chicago is juke, Chicago is house. It's not that crazy to have us doing what we're doing over these beats.

Illekt: We were raised on it.

Jasson: Yeah, exactly. We were raised on double-time beats and double-time raps. And I think lyricism has always been part of our city, too: with Resurrection, with Kanye and Lupe. It was organic to us, and it made sense to us.

At that benefit for Gaza back in April ["Roots of Resistance" with Rebel Diaz, DAM, Shadia Mansour and M1 from Dead Prez], we were going back and forth about whether we should even play "Chi Don't Dance." And we finally said, "No, we've got to do it because it's Chicago!" It's juke! It's us! And that's what the autonomous, grassroots stuff is all about, right?

COULD YOU describe what juke is?

Illekt: Juke is a form of music and a dance. It's really fast, club-sounding stuff with usually just chants over it.

Jasson: Yeah, but it's house beats, so it's actually a sped-up house beat instead of a break beat.

Illekt: And then, of course, the dance is just raunchy. You know, grinding and all that...

Epic: But if you think about it, it's not raunchy. I was looking at some video of some African dance, and there's no difference.

Illekt: Well, dance is normally sexual anyway! Even more traditional dances, like the salsa, the tango--those are dances about passion and love. So folks can call it raunchy, but kids have always been dancing close.

Jasson: When I first heard juke, all I was hearing was computerized African drumming. You know, when you see an African drum circle, and it's going fast and crazy--that's all juke was to me, it was just computerized and had a digital sound.

It seems that African music and oppressed people's music in general will always find a way to regenerate itself into something that's relevant. That's why when some people try dismiss juke as just a dance music, we think, "Naw, it's not just some stupid dance music." We have it for a reason, and we need to celebrate it.

YOU GUYS are starting to do some shows outside of Chicago. Have you noticed a different reaction as you go to different places?

Illekt: I feel like with any new crowd with us--especially because we start out with "BB-Who?"--you get introduced to the group right away and slapped in the face with what we do. I think everyone is a little thrown back at first. And it takes them a second for them to grasp what's really happening in front of them.

I feel like most of the time, though, by the end, we've won over at least 50 percent of the crowd, if not more. People who know us, they'll go out and get crazy right away, but with people who don't know us, they'll try to figure us out at first.

DO YOU notice a difference in the crowd between you play a show for a mainly activist crowd--like the Gaza show--or when you play a party show?

Illekt: It's always easier when it's a party or a club because people care more about the beats right away, and they can just dance to anything. I think we do end up winning people over, but of course there is a difference.

Epic: At the end of the day for me, it's more about how you live. I get off work every day. and I go organize with HIV-AIDS prevention work. We're grassroots movement-starters on multiple levels outside of music. It's not just music, it's a lifestyle. You may not get our music, but our lifestyle is something that you can respect.

Jasson: I think that was a big thing when we started, too. We wanted to have a group where maybe we weren't super-revolutionary or anything, but we were those dudes that knocked on doors, that did the work, were at the rallies. That's our lifestyle, that's what we do.

We felt it was important to have a rap group that did that stuff and also rapped relevantly. Even leading up to that Gaza show there were a few things that kind of jarred us because we felt like we actually had the industry giving us more love than activists--you know, our people! When we're at an industry party or a hipster party, we might know 10 people there, but the crowd's going buck! They're loving it!

Jasson: I really feel like BBU is a group that puts their blood, sweat and tears into the movement. We could easily take another route; we could choose other professions or other things to do with our lives. But activism and organizing has always come first. It's cool, though, because we've talked to a lot of friends who say that what we do has helped them--if they're burned out on organizing or burned out on activism.

THAT GETS to something I wanted to talk about next. What do you think the role of music in activism is?

Jasson: There was this one quote that I read that went "Art doesn't make a revolution, but you can't have a revolution without art." That's basically how we see it. BBU just doing rap won't make a revolution, but I feel like by living the way we do and also doing the music we do, we're bridging the gap. To us, that's the whole point! We don't feel like those worlds should be separate.

Illekt: There's always got to be a soundtrack, you know? For every movement that's happened, there's always a soundtrack. You can go back to Dylan and Joan Baez coming out to the March on Washington and performing their music. There's got to be the sound, and there's got to be the actual action on the ground for anything to happen.

Epic: That's one of the gifts that we have with Bin Laden Blowin' Up: we're able to cross the boundaries consistently. They have never been able to put us in a box. We're pretty hard to label. First of all, look at the group! There's just about every shade of brown in the group. And everyone's true to their views.

At the end of the day, we have the possibility of reaching groups of people that other groups may not reach. There are people that will go to see Hollywood Holt but won't go to see Dead Prez. And then there are people who will go to see Dead Prez but won't go to see Hollywood Holt.

But all of those are people who may come to see BBU. Some people only want to see us for the politics, others just to dance, but when they go home and play that track and they're repeating those lyrics, slowly but surely they're absorbing our message.

Jasson: Yeah, even if people are just hearing the beats, then they've still got to deal with the name Bin Laden Blowin' Up. You've got to come to terms with those two things...

Illekt: Even if you're hiding it under the couch so your folks don't see it.

Jasson: Yeah! I heard a quote somewhere that said if you make art that your parents can listen to and play, then you're doing something wrong! We want to be that kind of music...dangerous!

WE'RE A year into the Obama administration, and the hip-hop community put a lot of hope in him. He kind of became a platform for a lot of artists to speak about a whole host of issues.

Jasson: Yeah, it became the first time in hip-hop where you couldn't write a verse that said, "Fuck the president!" I'm really disappointed in this first year, though--and this is coming from a person who helped campaign for Obama.

I think it was the Nobel Peace Prize speech when I first started to see what some people were talking about in terms of him being a serious problem for the left. He didn't just defend the troops in Afghanistan; he defended the idea of war as a tool for peace and security. That's scary!

I really thought the foreign policy was going to be a lot different. I thought his stance on bailing out the banks would be different. I thought his stance on Israel's settlements in the Occupied Territories would be different. He made a promise to shut down Guantánamo, and now it looks like it's not going to happen.

Epic: The thing for me was that I voted for Obama to put a Black man in power. I didn't think we were going to change anything, because I realize that for him to get to that level, he's already sold out. He's owned by somebody and at the end of the day he's got to pay the piper.

But for me, it was just the value of seeing a Black man in the presidency. Even though it was a minor change, for the first time young people of color got that shot of hope. That effect trickles down. People feel like they can strive for something better.

Illekt: We've got to admit that was a change too. I can't wait until my kids pick up a schoolbook and flip through these pages and say, "Damn! This country elected a Black man named Barack Hussein Obama!"

SO A year later, with this economic crisis, the continuation of two occupations, the hope bubble seems to have deflated a bit. What now for activism and music?

Epic: I feel like if anything is going to spark a revolution, it's this. For once, Black, white, Latino, poor and oppressed all decided on one cause, and that was Obama. There needs to be solidarity for a revolution, and for the first time you've got all these people making a solid stance. The rejection from Obama now--as long as it doesn't create a divide among people of different races...

LIKE THE Tea Partiers are trying to do?

Epic: Yeah. But now we've got working-class white folks pissed off right next to their Black counterparts. It reminds me of what Malcolm X said, which is that a revolution won't have anything to do with the color of your skin--it's going be about whether you're oppressed. And people are really oppressed!

You're talking about GM plants shut down that feed not only Black mouths but white mouths and Latino mouths. Ultimately, if there is a revolution, it'll have everything to do with what we do, whether we organize.

WHERE DOES this leave hip-hop?

Jasson: I think before, when hip-hop was on that entrepreneurship and multinational corporation trip--you know, like "I did it, here's my super-label"--it's now coming back around to wanting to be independent. Like, Gucci Mane is still independent! He's built up his career off of mixtapes!

And that's because capitalism didn't have all the answers for hip-hop; it wasn't going to put hip-hop where it needed to be. It wasn't going to get you that radio play or that video. There has to be other ways to do your business, other ways to be more collective about what you're doing. And ways that you have to actually invest in a scene in order to make yourself into a better artist.

Under capitalism, giving away a free mix CD is insane. But now, with the way hip-hop and technology and the Internet are, you can give away a lot of free music! You can give away 10 CDs of free music!

SO DO you think that same process also creates more room for your kind of radical musical and lyrical content?

Epic: Absolutely! I'm glad you brought that in because if you listen to any of the new lyrics that are out there, there's a lot of content! It's come back around to lyricism big-time lately!

Jasson: Also, the blogs! Which are read by so many more people! And they'll report on everything from a totally different angle and people will care about it more than they will what they read in Vibe or The Source or XXL.

Illekt: With the Internet the way it is, it gives you such a different lane than just what Clear Channel's playing on the radio. There's a lot more music circulated and it's much easier to get your hands on music nowadays.

IF ALL this means there's more room for you guys to do what you do, then I suppose the next question is one that's almost never asked of even political artists: What kind of world do you want to fight for? And what kind of world do you want to live in?

Jasson: For me, it's always about my daughter. I don't want her to live in a world that's run by empire. And I also don't want her to live in a world where she feels the complexion of her skin or the length of her hair is somehow not right, or where because she's a woman she has to worry about being sexually assaulted.

Those are just the basics. I believe everyone's got the right to food and shelter and to live free from the influence of corporations.

Illekt: I think we've got to have a world that's about uplifting people--educating them and having a means for young people to rise to their potential. I know it's really hard to imagine that there's a whole other world out there.

I grew up in Humboldt Park, and I used to be in that shit. I was never in a gang, but I hung out with all the gangs and I had boys from everywhere. I basically did all the shit they did without ever affiliating because there was always a part of me that said "no." But most people don't have those options.

Epic: They answered the question really well. I feel the same way. I know what I want my world to look like, but there are so many components. I think in order for the world to get right, there have to be some extreme sacrifices by the government--if there's a government in my world--to actually start dealing with the psychological damage that's been done to the African American community.

Of course, we've got to stop all the bullshit first--police brutality, the lack of jobs--but after that, there has to be some form of healing and a process to aid that healing. The government's never admitted the effects of locking up a Black man for 25 years and then letting him out. He tries to go get a job and then gets told that he can't get a job because he's a felon. And they try to say this is a free world!

Jasson: We have people on [Illinois'] death row right now after [former Gov.] George Ryan admitted the process of deciding who goes on death row is completely screwed up.

Epic: Or you have [former Chicago police commander] Jon Burge, who committed torture on multiple individuals. My stepfather is a man named Mike Smith, who's currently incarcerated on a 27-year sentence. And we've got checks written by Daley, when he was state's attorney, to an informant.

When you look at situations like that, where we can't even get innocent people out of jail, then the entire system has to be torn down and rebuilt. But after the system's been torn down, there's a whole lot of damage we've got to repair.

Alexander Billet's music blog is Rebel Frequencies.